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- From: Vince.Johnson@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Vince Johnson)
- Newsgroups: alt.paranet.ufo
- Subject: Deneb Letter #1
- Message-ID: <4702.2C4C1A85@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
- Date: 20 Jul 93 15:49:00 GMT
- Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
- Organization: FidoNet node 1:30163/150.0
-
-
- To: All Deneb Team Members
- From: JS
- Date: 23 Mar 92
- Subject: Research Findings on the Chihuahua Disk Crash
- Text:
-
- On 25 Aug 74, at 2207 hrs, US Air Defense radar detected an unknown
- approaching US airspace from the Gulf of Mexico. Originally the
- object was tracked at 2,200 (2530 mph) knots on a bearing of 325
- degrees and at an altitude of 75,000 feet, a course that would
- intercept US territory about forty miles southwest of Corpus
- Cristi, Texas. After approximately sixty seconds of observation,
- at a position 155 miles southeast of Corpus Cristi, the object
- simultaneously decelerated to approximately 1700 (1955 mph) knots,
- turned to a heading of 290 degrees, and began a slow descent. It
- entered Mexican airspace approximately forty miles south of
- Brownsville, Texas. Radar tracked it approximately 500 miles to a
- point near the town of Coyame, in the state of Chihuahua, not far
- from the US border. There the object suddenly disappeared from the
- radar screens.
-
- During the flight over Mexican airspace, the object leveled off at
- 45,000 feet, then descended to 20,000 feet. The descent was in
- level steps, not a smooth curve or straight line, and each level
- was maintained for approximately five minutes.
-
- The object was tracked by two different military radar
- installations. It would have been within range of Brownsville
- civilian radar, but it is assumed that no civilian radar detected
- the object due to a lack of any such reports.
-
- The point of disappearance from the radar screens was over a barren
- and sparsely populated area of Northern Mexico. At first it was
- assumed that the object had descended below the radar's horizon and
- a watch was kept for any re-emergence of the object. None
- occurred.
-
- At first it was assumed that the object might be a meteor because
- of the high speed and descending flight path. But meteors normally
- travel at higher speeds, and descend in a smooth arc, not in
- "steps." And meteors do not normally make a thirty-five degree
- change in course. Shortly after detection an air defense alert was
- called. However, before any form of interception could be
- scrambled, the object turned to a course that would not immediately
- take it over US territory. The alert was called off within twenty
- minutes after the object's disappearance from the radar screen.
-
- Fifty-two minutes after the disappearance, civilian radio traffic
- indicated that a civilian aircraft had gone down in that area. But
- it was clear that the missing aircraft had departed El Paso
- International with a destination of Mexico City, and could not,
- therefore, have been the object tracked over the Gulf of Mexico.
-
- It was noted, however, that they both disappeared in the same area
- and at the same time.
-
- With daylight the next day, Mexican authorities began a search for
- the missing plane. Approximately 1035 hrs there came a radio
- report that wreckage from the missing plane had been spotted from
- the air. Almost immediately came a report of a second plane on the
- ground a few miles from the first. A few minutes later an
- additional report stated that the second "plane" was circular
- shaped and apparently in one piece although damaged. A few minutes
- after that the Mexican military clamped a radio silence on all
- search efforts.
-
- The radio interceptions were reported through channels to the CIA.
- Possibly as many as two additional government agencies also
- received reports, but such has not been confirmed as of this date.
- The CIA immediately began forming a recovery team. The speed with
- which this team and its equipment was assembled suggests that this
- was either a well-rehearsed exercise or one that had been performed
- prior to this event.
-
- In the meantime requests were initiated at the highest levels
- between the United States and Mexican governments that the US
- recovery team be allowed onto Mexican territory to "assist." These
- requests were met with professed ignorance and a flat refusal of
- any cooperation.
-
- By 2100 hrs, 26 Aug 74, the recovery team had assembled and been
- staged at Fort Bliss. Several helicopters were flown in from some
- unknown source and assembled in a secured area. These helicopters
- were painted a neutral sand color and bore no markings. Eye
- witness indicates that there were three smaller craft, very
- probably UHl Hueys from the description. There was also a larger
- helicopter, possibly a Sea Stallion. Personnel from this team
- remained with their craft and had no contact with other Ft. Bliss
- personnel.
-
- Satellite and recognizance aircraft overflight that day indicated
- that both the crashed disk and the civilian aircraft had been
- removed from the crash sites and loaded on flat bed trucks. Later
- flights confirmed that the convoy had departed the area heading
- south.
-
- At that point the CIA had to make a choice, either to allow this
- unknown aircraft to stay in the hands of the Mexican government, or
- to launch the recovery team, supplemented by any required military
- support, to take the craft. There occurred, however, an event that
- took the choice out of their hands. High altitude overflights
- indicated that the convoy had stopped before reaching any inhabited
- areas or major roads. Recon showed no activity, and radio contact
- between the Mexican recovery team and its headquarters had ceased.
- A low altitude, high speed overflight was ordered.
-
- The photos returned by that aircraft showed all trucks and jeeps
- stopped, some with open doors, and two human bodies laying on the
- ground beside two vehicles. The decision was immediately made to
- launch the recovery team but the actual launching was held up for
- the arrival of additional equipment and two additional personnel.
- It was not until 1438 hrs that the helicopters departed Ft. Bliss.
-
- The four helicopters followed the boarder down towards Presido then
- turned and entered Mexican airspace north of Candelaria. They were
- over the convoy site at 1653 hrs. All convoy personnel were dead,
- most within the trucks. Some recovery team members, dressed
- bioprotection suits, reconfigured the straps holding the object on
- the flatbed truck, then attached them to a cargo cable from the Sea
- Stallion. By 1714 hrs the recovered object was on its way to US
- territory. Before leaving the convoy site, members of the recovery
- team gathered together the Mexican vehicles and bodies, then
- destroyed all with high explosives. This included the pieces of
- the civilian light plane which had been involved in the mid-air
- collision. At 1746 hrs the Hueys departed.
-
- The Hueys caught up with the Sea Stallion as it reentered US
- airspace. The recovery team then proceeded to a point in the
- Davis Mountains, approximately twenty-five miles north east of
- Valentine. There they landed and waited until 0225 hrs the next
- morning. At that time they resumed the flight and rendezvoused
- with a small convoy on a road between Van Horn and Kent. The
- recovered disk was transferred to a truck large enough to handle it
- and capable of being sealed totally. Some of the personnel from
- the Huey's transferred to the convoy.
-
- All helicopters then returned to their original bases for
- decontamination procedures. The convoy continued non-stop, using
- back roads and smaller highways, and staying away from cities. The
- destination of the convoy reportedly was Altanta, Georgia.
-
- Here the hard evidence thins out. One unconfirmed report says the
- disk was eventually transferred to Wright-Patterson AF Base.
- Another says that the disk was either transferred after that to
- another unnamed base, or was taken directly to this unknown base
- directly from Atlanta.
-
- The best description of the disk was that it was sixteen feet, five
- inches in diameter, convex on both upper and lower surfaces to the
- same degree, possessing no visible doors or windows. The thickness
- was slightly less than five feet. The color was silver, much like
- polished steel. There were no visible lights nor any propulsion
- means. There were no markings. There were two areas of the rim
- that showed damage, one showing an irregular hole approximately
- twelve inches in diameter with indented material around it. The
- other damage was described as a "dent" about two feet wide. The
- weight of the object was estimated as approximately one thousand,
- five hundred pounds, based on the effect of the weight on the
- carrying helicopter and those who transferred it to the truck.
-
- There was no indication in the documentation available as to
- whether anything was visible in the "hole."
-
- It seems likely that the damage with the hole was caused by the
- collision with the civilian aircraft. That collision occurred
- while the object was traveling approximately 1700 knots (1955 mph).
- Even ignoring the speed of the civilian aircraft, the impact would
- have been considerable at that speed. This is in agreement with
- the description of the civilian aircraft as being "almost totally
- destroyed." What was being taken from the crash site was pieces of
- the civilian aircraft.
-
- The second damage may have resulted when the object impacted with
- the ground. The speed in that case should have been considerably
- less than that of the first impact.
-
- No mention is made of the occupants of the civilian aircraft. It
- is not known if any body or bodies were recovered. Considering the
- destruction of the civilian light aircraft in mid-air, bodies may
- well not have come down near the larger pieces.
-
- Unfortunately what caused the deaths of the Mexican recovery team
- is not known. Speculation ranges from a chemical released from the
- disk as a result of the damage, to a microbiological agent. There
- are no indications of death or illness by any of the recovery team.
- It would not have been illogical for the recovery team to have
- taken one of the bodies back with them for anaylsis. But there is
- no indication of that having happen. Perhaps they did not have
- adquate means of transporting what might have been a biologically
- contaminated body.
-
- Inquires to the FAA reveal no documents conserning the civilian
- aircraft crash, probably because it did not involve a US aircraft
- nor did it occur over US airspace.
-
- It should be noted that the above facts do not tell the complete
- story. Nothing is known of the analysis of the craft or its
- contents. Nothing is known about the deaths associated with the
- foreign recovery team. Nor is it known if this craft was manned or
- not.
-
- Other questions also remain, such as why would a recovered disk be
- taken to Altanta? And where did the disk come from? It was first
- detected approximately 200 miles from US territory, yet US air
- defenses extend to a much greater distance than that. If the
- object descended into the atmosphere, perhaps NORAD space tracking
- has some record of the object. Alternate possibility is that it
- entered the Gulf of Mexico under radar limits then "jumped" up to
- 75,000 feet. Considering prior behavior exhibited by disks of this
- size, it is probable that the entry was from orbital altitude.
-
- The facts that are known have been gathered from two eye witness
- accounts, documentation illegally copied, and a partially destroyed
- document. This was done in 1978 by a person who is now dead. Only
- in February of this year did the notes and documents come into the hands
- of our group.
-
- END OF DOCUMENT
-
- Subject: Deneb Letter #2
-
-
- To: All Deneb Team Members
- From: JS
- Date: 2 Mar 92
- Subject: Research Findings on the Pinehurst "Abduction"
- Text:
-
- Given the small amount of data to go on and the number of years
- that have passed since the original incident, very little
- importance should be placed on this report. The group first
- learned of it through a verbal transmission from an Air Force
- Officer. He stated that he had learned of it from a report filed
- with the Intelligence Officer at Fairchild AFB a few days after the
- event. He admitted that he did not meet those filing the report,
- nor was he actually involved with any type of investigation.
- Apparently the original report as filed by a civilian was
- "humorous" enough to get passed around among some of the officers.
-
- His statement (summarized):
-
- On 24 June 71 a man and his wife came into the base headquarters at
- Fairchild and stated that they wished to make a report of a "flying
- saucer." They were turned over to the base Intelligence Officer as
- would be proper under AF guidelines for UFO reports at that time.
- He allowed them to write down their story but apparently placed
- very little importance in their statements for report indicated
- that he asked no questions and apparently told the civilians that
- their report would be "passed up the channels." It is not known if
- that was ever done, or if that officer, disbelieving the report
- because of the possible abduction aspect, merely filed it without
- following standard UFO reporting procedure. It is possible that he
- did not even file the report, but merely passed it around the its
- "amusement" value then trash canned it.
-
- The facts remembered from the report were as follows:
-
- On 21 June 71, Mr John Stacy (23) and his wife, Gloria (23), were
- in their home near Pinehurst, Idaho. Their home was a distance
- from the town and somewhat isolated. It was after dinner and both
- were sitting down, Mrs Stacy watching TV, John reading a book. At
- approximately 2215 hrs John's attention was caught by a light
- outside the window, a reddish light of rather deep color. He went
- to the window and saw a column of light described as "deep red"
- descending to the ground from above. The place where the light
- struck the ground was only about a hundred feet from the house and
- he could not see from his position what was causing the light.
-
- After showing the light to his wife, he went out the back door,
- accompanied by her, to investigate. He took with him a 22 caliber
- pistol, the only weapon in the house. He stated that the light was
- like nothing he had ever seen and "a little scary." Once clear of
- the roof, they could see that the light was coming from the center
- of a circular shape hovering approximately two hundred feet in the
- air. The shape was dark, no lights apparent other than the red
- beam shining directly down from the center. He estimated the
- diameter of the "disk" to be fifty feet.
-
- For a few minutes they both just stood there, staring in wonder at
- the thing. Then John realized that it was no longer there. He was
- still standing outside, looking at the sky, but there was no object
- and no light. He stated that he didn't remember seeing it go, just
- that he was suddenly aware it wasn't there any longer. And that he
- was suddenly chilled.
-
- He turned to his wife but she wasn't there. He also noticed that
- his revolver was no longer in his hand. Puzzled, he went back into
- the house, searching for Gloria. She was not present. He then
- took a flashlight and searched the area around the house but failed
- to find her. Returning to the house, he was about to call law
- authorities when he noticed a red flash out of the corner of his
- eye. The light had been outside a window. He was going to the
- door again when he met Gloria slowly walking back into the house.
-
- He began questioning her about where she had been but she was in a
- daze and unable to answer coherently except to say that she felt
- she had been "somewhere. n As she recovered she seemed very much
- afraid of the outside of the house but could put no words to her
- fears. He got her to bed and calmed down. The next day she could
- not remember where she had been and seemed anxious whenever he
- asked questions.
-
- In the report, John Stacy stated that he had noticed there were red
- marks encircling his wife's wrists and ankles but she could not
- explain how they had gotten there. It appeared that the skin was
- somewhat raw as if rubbed or chaffed.
-
- On the second day after the sighting, Mrs Stacy told her husband
- that she was sure she had been inside the "flying saucer" but still
- could not remember anything else. That is when he decided to go to
- the nearest AFB and report the incident and inquire as to what it
- might have been. It appears unlikely that his questions were
- answered by the AF officer who took their statements.
-
- This is the end of the original verbal account, given to a member
- of the group in early 1983. It was recorded and filed for possible
- investigation but with a low priority due to the amount of time
- that had passed.
-
- In 1985 one of the group happened to be not far from Pinehurst and
- decided to investigate. The trail was pretty cold by then. Casual
- interrogation of long-time residents did, however, reveal two men
- who remembered the couple and the incident. Apparently it had been
- written up in a local paper. Attempts to locate that paper proved
- negative as it had apparently gone out of business years before.
-
- Additional information gathered from the locals include: Gloria
- Stacy died in 1980 from causes unrelated to the incident. John
- Stacy moved to California right after that.
-
- The original newspaper article described only the dark "saucer" and
- a red beam, but not the possible abduction. Apparently the Stacy's
- had decided to not reveal that part. But those who knew them said
- that years later John told them several additional facts. Unable
- to sleep after the incident, John lay in bed awake for quite a
- while. It was then that he realized that it was far later than it
- should have been. He knew the time he saw the red light because of
- the TV show that was on. But when Gloria returned and they went to
- bed, it was over four hours later. Even allowing for two hours as
- he searched the area around the house and to calm his wife down
- after she returned, that still leaves approximately two hours
- unaccounted for.
-
- Also Mrs Stacy had "bad dreams" for quite a while afterwards but
- never did remember anything additional about the time she was
- missing. For a couple years after the incident she would not leave
- the house at night.
-
- There had been no additional incidents with unknowns or anything
- that could be related to the original incident, at least none that
- were related to the two locals interviewed.
-
- Without the ability to interview the primary witnesses, there is
- little that can be made of this report. As it stands, this
- incident contains some of the standard elements of abduction cases,
- yet differs in some ways. The beam of red light has been reported
- only a few times, mostly not in conjunction with abductions. The
- missing time element is a key factor, of course. But the marks on
- her wrists and ankles suggest some form of physical restraint, not
- a common element. A similar occurrence has been related in only
- one other abduction, that in which the woman claimed to have been
- bound to a chair and left alone for a period of time by the
- "aliens." There is no evidence of any other marks on her body, nor
- of any post-abduction symptoms other than bad dreams and a
- nervousness about going outside at night. It is possible,
- considering the second-hand evidence, that such symptoms may have
- simply gone unreported.
-
- This couple apparently felt it their duty to report this sighting
- to the AF, or perhaps because they felt that the AF might help
- explain to them what had happened. They certainly did not seek
- publicity afterwards, in fact apparently avoided it. This argues
- strongly in favor of a real incident of some type having occurred.
-
- Some limited attempts have been made to local John Stacy in the Los
- Angeles area but have proved negative.
-
- This case is not considered worthwhile for further investigation.
-
- END OF DOCUMENT
-
- --
- Vince Johnson - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
- UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
- INTERNET: Vince.Johnson@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG
-
-